What a new user needs to know BEFORE installing OpenMandriva?

Everything is in the title. :wink:
Put your positive or negative feedback with decent words and care of the neighborhood :pray:

Happy new year 2024 to everyone and may the Mandrake force be with you !

That OpenMandriva uses clang by default, so if someone has a specific Wi-Fi card or other specific hardware, then they need to change the source code of their driver to ensure compatibility with clang, otherwise the hardware won’t work. And if user will download the Linux kernel version for gcc, it will be a less interesting experience using OM than on clang

You probably know more about this than I do. Most of us do install things that are not built with clang and I have never heard of such a problem. If there is a problem I believe we would want to get details and see if it could be fixed. Most wifi card drivers should be in the kernel unless they are proprietary or have a bad or weird license. We do add wifi driver from time to time if users request and the driver is available and opensource.

The biggest problem I am aware of with 3rd party software in OMLx systems is that sometimes the 3rd party stuff uses of old, outdated, library packages. Another problem that does come up is 3rd party software using different paths or naming.

Folks do sometime install .rpm’s from Fedora or other rpm distros. Sometimes they work and if they don’t it is almost always because of paths or naming issues.

But it is also possible I get to learn something on this issue.

@Pozitigor thanks for your contribution.
Please have a look here

Clang compiled kernel
The standard kernel for OpenMandriva Lx 5.0 is clang compiled

is there anything to add (not too much long text) in your opinion?

Poke @ben79 + @rugyada to bump on @Pozitigor post, the wiki has great resources but IMO an introduction is needed on the website too! Like “Since 5.0 kernel and packages are compiled exclusively with clang, an alternative of gcc. To find out more xxx…” I used gcc with 4.3 but it’s not possible anymore with 5. We should guide the user experienced or not.

As an image @ben79 you can survive but it’s not a fancy experience. If you drive left side, you try or rent a car and it’s right side, you won’t die but it’s gonna be an unexpected surprise :crazy_face:

then they need to change the source code of their driver to ensure compatibility with clang

I’m sorry for my incompetence that was yesterday, all I had to do was to install the C/C++ compiler suite and re-run the script using CC=clang, reboot the system and my wifi card works with its driver. :sweat_smile:
It turns out that my claim was unfounded, but still it is kinda confusing that the installation of such an important option is in the development tab in applications.

I have tested the kernel-desktop-gcc versions and I did not notice anything different. Granted I am not a developer, I am user knowledge level so there may be performance differences that a dev or gamer might notice.

OM can and in rare instances does compile software with gcc. One can do this with our own source material in git and our tools to build rpm’s locally.

To build packages locally I install these packages:

sudo dnf in git abf-console-client abb mock rpmdevtools

Then in terminal:

$ git clone https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/package_name.git

$ cd <name of package>

$ sudo dnf builddep *.spec

$ abb build

If you want to make any changes to the package, usually in the .spec file, you do that after cd in to the directory created. Then to test any changes you made abb build. If you need help with something it is best to ask at OpenMandriva Chat. You can add a patch for a test build but ask at OM Chat about that. You will need enough empty storage space to build whatever package. How much is needed and depends on complexity of the package being built and number of dependent packages.

Now to build a package with gcc you add the line:

%define prefer_gcc 1

near the top (beginning) of the .spec file.

Edit: I am learning this as I go myself. I need to learn how to add patches for local builds.

1 Like

To cut the chase :

@ben79 I appreciate the info, that’s too early in the process. Following the talk on the chat, usable or not you want to get the binary first. dnf rpm or similar tool is for packaging.

As an example it’s like your trying to help giving information about shipping a product. The user is looking for help to build the product. Another example would be which spoon he needs, not the wrapping paper :clown_face:

@rugyada yes written in the wiki at the place = hidden to the user, it’s easy to get confused or to miss the point. Same as @Pozitigor this is the first wall I took front face and it wasn’t really pleasant. I would like to add an emphasis somewhere on the site or the README or even the OM Welcome app like a reminder about cLang.

As an example, it’s like a burn while cooking. You didn’t check out, using the wrong stove and you almost hurt yourself. That’s not OpenMandriva responsibility, depending from the number of cases growing up, it’s nice to put a kind of security sticker :warning:

@Pozitigor To bump on your wifi issue, I guess the developer team will look / help / consider for packaging the driver or not. I’m more interesting in the hardware info if it doesn’t hurt your privacy so we can start - or add - our own existing list of compatible or incompatible hardware.

The first step would have been to disclose your hardware info to make sure a similar driver doesn’t already exist in one of our repository, even if you don’t plan to use it. That’s fine. :sunglasses:

Cheers

The first step would have been to disclose your hardware info to make sure a similar driver doesn’t already exist

My WiFi card is Archer t3u plus, it’s kinda supported by the rtw8822bu driver. But my WiFi connection is slow with this driver, so I prefer to install RinCat’s RTL88x2BU driver from GitHub. It has GNU-GPL v2 license, and could be installed through make or dkms, but it requires rtw8822bu to be blacklisted.

Thank you @Pozitigor you rock :metal: I appreciate a lot.
Without contributing directly, at least the information can be crawled by the search engine. That’s a great point. :+1:

Currently I don’t have enough information / skillset but this is what I used for my own laptop :

If the module is robustly written, a quick and dirty fix like this - probably same as you did:

make CC=clang CXX=clang++ LD=ld.lld AR=llvm-ar NM=llvm-nm OBJCOPY=llvm-objcopy OBJSIZE=llvm-size STRIP=llvm-strip

should be enough to compile locally.

If you don’t mind, if you actually have a github account and are familiar with the service, that would be great if you can clone the RinCat’s repository you mentionned and write a few steps on the README like this with what works for you.

This can be precious information crawled by search engines as well. The core team is probably busy with nVidia drivers issues, or other priority tasks at the moment so let’s give the best we can and give the same chance / opportunity to other users.

That would prevent repeating and save a bit of energy and resources, and could be used later for packaging properly :pray:

I have a GitHub account, but I don’t see any reason for cloning RinCat’s repo on GitHub, because the instruction that RinCat wrote worked perfectly for me except that I needed to use make CC=clang instead of make.

Just curious about how many hours did the “except that I needed to use make CC=clang instead of make” take you ? For me it’s like half a day maybe more so clearly something valuable / important to share with the community as there are not many tutorials available for now.

It took me about 5 minutes to find the CC option on the internet and then another 5 minutes compile the code with -j6
But if the point of making the compilation process easier for every user then I will clone RinCat’s repo. But I’m a little bit afraid of my repo getting banned on GitHub because the only thing I will change in it is readme file. Wouldn’t it be better if I just create a new topic with instructions on how to build rtl88x2bu on the forum?

5min good for you, that’s great :+1:

No you can’t. A few OpenMandriva “officials” are actually updating regularly the “Resources” section but regular users are forbidden to write in the “Resources” by default, kind of bullsh** mindset I don’t appreciate about OpenMandriva.

Cloning the repo and adding a few notes in Github is just the easiest & convenient way, probably crawled in a better way by external search engines as well. Otherwise it’s inside the original support ticket or I don’t where… :sweat_drops:

1 Like

Alright, when I put my hands on the computer, I will clone the github repository to my account and change the instructions in it for clang. I think that it would be better to send the link on the repo here?

I appreciate your cooperation @Pozitigor :slight_smile: Sure please put the link on the repo here, we can update it later. I don’t like to “flood the forum” and I guess that’s what I’m contributing to do right now :melting_face: anyway when you can share the info :ok_hand: that’s the point.

Yes, the nVidia stuff is taking a lot of time, alwasy does. Also devs are in final stages of getting ready for a major software upgrade for ROME. This also is very time consuming and complicated. They do make every effort to get these things done correctly. Frankly working with nVidia proprietary stuff is a pain in the rear end.

Yes, creating a new topic using that as an example would be useful.

For wifi drivers:

https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers

If OpenMandriva does not have a driver some user/users need they can make a package request.

The fact is anyone can write a how to or other documentation type of article and post in Fourm Support or Development section. We do move some such posts, after review and discussion, to Resources section. Articles in Resources section can be added to OM-wiki. But there has to be an approval or vetting of any documentation for obvious reasons.

The work flow would be:

User posts article in forum
OM contributors decide “we should add this to Resources”
OM contributors decide “we need to put this in OM wiki”
There may or may not be changes made before putting something in Resources or wiki.

Without approval process and allowing anyone to publish directly to Resources or wiki there can be things that are incorrect or worse. This did happen to our original wiki, it was so bad we ditched that wiki and started over. And at that time we tightened our policy on this.

I would be interested to know of any Linux distro that allows anyone to write documentation without some approval process or vetting before publishing.

Does OpenMandriva need to do a better job of encouraging people to contribute to our documentation? IMO yes. In our defense all contributors have To Do and Wish lists and none of us can keep up with things we already know we want to do. I don’t know how to do better at this but it is worth my trying to get better at this.

I remain convinced that what about a dozen part time, unpaid, volunteers have done with OpenMandriva project is remarkable and positive. This is a constant process of improvement, growth in knowledge, and correcting errors. This also does, at times, involve struggling with limited resources compared to larger Linux distros. There are advantages (and disadvantages) to being a small group.

@ben79 you know you are good, right?

I really appreciate the time you take to write concisely in every of your answer. That’s inspiring to me. :heart_hands: In the opposite I don’t appreciate you cite every day / every week the fact OpenMandriva is a small group with a small budget. It’s bad thinking and is gonna push you down on the long term, no offense. I’m upset to read notifications or reminders about low resources / budget every time I’m on the forum or when a new user arrived. :tired_face:

I don’t expect neither want you or OpenMandriva to do a better job in encouraging people to contribute, I would like the badass of this community to let or “to supervise” users contributing.

To bump on @Pozitigor issue, if you don’t get the hardware name, the info are not usable for me neither the community. You don’t need the full info perfectly every time, the most important bit in that case would be chipset name + the CC trick.

A typical user case, better skill than me, solving his own problem in less than 15min and only 30s was required to write 1 sentence that can impact the day of other users. That’s more in the education field. Prevention ?

Getting the user to the package request page and filling the form is great, just considering the amount of time use for nvidia for example, it makes more sense and is a bit honnest to admit users will probably have to try on his own sometimes. Even if there were more volunteers you can’t package on the fly.

I’m daily using OpenMandriva ROCK since November 10th I guess - fully switch I haven’t touched Windows / Mac for a while - ROME since today, thanks for the guideline by the way it worked fluently - that’s impressive. :rocket:
Groovy, come get some ! :dizzy: (Duke Nukem Reference)

Let’s face it : I enjoy this distro. :heartpulse:

At the time of writing for the rest of the world, pardon my rudeness, OpenMandriva is just an association, a bunch of a few anonymous persons. Privacy or not, there is even not a team page. I’m the wind, you are nobody, OpenMandriva is nothing. You are noone.

When you decide or get time to tell me a bit more, maybe I can jump on.
For now I’m contributing a bit, I don’t think I’ll be there in a year :dotted_line_face:

Cheers, よろしくお願いします。

When I started contributing to OpenMandrsiva I mostly just did it. When I needed help I asked. And I had to ask a lot. I still do. Overtime what I am able to do has increased exponentially.

When users make suggesitons like you are doing we have a difficult time getting them to realize “that is a great suggestion in fact it is already on Jim Bob’s To Do list all we need is the time to do it”.

Believe it or not there is a lot to running a distro like this that is not fun but we contributors have to do these things before we get to the more enjoyable stuff. To grow with such a small group can be very rewarding but it takes time, knowledge, persistence, and commitment.

Personal: Based on my career in Printing industry I always worked on the basis that the organization must begin with an honest assement of it’s resources and capabilities. You work with and set expectations with what you have not what you wish you have. I did extensive work in customer relations later in my career. I was taught and believe that it is especially important when interacting with customers that the organization is honest about it’s resources and capabilities. Nothing destroys a vendor customer relationship faster than setting expectations you can not meet. I remain convinced this is the correct approach to managing an organization and managing customer service.

In terms of OpenMandriva the Association and the distro users=customers IMO.