To me KDE plasma is awesome. And while I’m aware of some of their people having crazy opinions I think this is a minor issue at this time. Gnome on the other hand is a complete wreck at this point. KDE is a global community and admitted a german based non-profit. I think its fair to disagree with and point out issues or things that may come up. At the same time I think there are organizations and groups behind software actually destroying themselves by going down the path of radical political activism over making software. KDE is not doing that. They may not be perfect, but they are not going down the road of complete madness. Linux and plasma work very very well and I don’t think talking about the sky falling is always productive. Now the slow death of X11 is another issue entirely. And I really hope other projects continue to support Xorg going forward. At the same time some people coming to linux do use wayland and still get work done. I think wayland will still continue to improve however I would prefer to continue with some form a xorg. So yea the sky is not falling linux does not suck. Now if you wanted to roast fedora linux or Ubuntu I could see your points. But in terms of linux generally there are various good options. I think we should not act as if the sky is falling and we have to make our own kernel fork because Linus has this or that view personally. So yes I’m addressing comments by other on these forums. As a final point I think pointing things out is perfectly fair, but I don’t think the case against something should be over hyped as worse than it is. Lots of people in the world disagree. And we should try our best to project a willing to accept some people having crazy opinions if they work for organizations that make software we find value in. Its when the put activism above making software to the extreme you have to worry on a practice basis.
@SecularPerson7 Let me understand your point please.
So you are trying to workaround the closure of that discussion by starting another similar one?
I don’t know how you people do things here. I assumed its like anything else it was closed for who knows why. So yea I was making own point.
I think a selectively enforced CoC is strong evidence that they place a strong emphasis on political activism.
I think it has more to do with the current economic model, virtue signal for gov grants. I don’t like being forced to pay for things, whether they have value to me, someone, or no one. It’s strange that people would make that a solely political position, when it isn’t. It’s not a new concept either, it’s just everywhere. Everyone’s PC’s and phones are littered with it, because it makes money for media entities. The average person has no idea how they are being manipulated, or that it is simply to make media insanely rich with ads and data farming, at the expense of gullible people.
I’m definitely cautious using software written by people who would cheer if I was assassinated.
“@lunduke KDE says X users are Nazis!” Probably, is a non-starter for 1/2 of Americans.
Yes because throwing out perfectly good software because of the people who use it or their ideas is a totally reasonable way to operate.. I’m not saying there is no line but given the point is to get a task done and not to have perfect agreement I think its short sighted to close yourself off from software projects that easily. I don’t care if they do actively hate us. Its the their own fault for making something and releasing it for public use anyone can use it sorry. Use it to spite them (its not like you have pay for it its free software in this case free of cost) however you have to justifiy it. I think its foolish if that’s your only reason for not using it.
Also its probably more like 58% or more. Not just just half. IF we are talking numbers.
While I can agree with a portion of what you are saying, there are some things we probably ought to be really honest about.
When you make the case that we should not “[throw] out perfectly good software,” that would both assume that the software meets the needs of everyone that uses it and that no coercion to create or fund it was used. Neither is the case. If it was on ideological differences, I would be on your side about this. KDE and other foundations and projects took tax payer funded grants (which did not come with any form of vote or consent to earmark and disperse) and now wants to draw an ideological line about who is fit to use the software they represent. No.
I have heard the no cost argument before and it’s extremely ill informed. Everything has a cost, see the previous paragraph. Suggesting FOSS was created in the public good and then saying we should allow them to violate the public good by keeping other viable options from replacing what was made is a very distant concept from what is commonly understood as the public good. That, and our somewhat implied ownership of said software because of the theft of our taxes to fund it means this is more than just an ideological slap to the face that can be explained away by the lack of an upfront cost.
Finally, those who make the argument about, “It doesn’t bother me, I will keep using it because it works,” is just burying your head in the sand. The majority of computer users buy a computer to just Next, Next, Finish their way to doing something with no understanding whatsoever of how much more they could accomplish if they were using all the capabilities of a computer with any operating system, let alone a Linux distribution.
Unfortunately, everything is political now. You made some very good points here though.
This entire response is the smartest thing you have ever said on this forum. I pretty much agree 100%. Funny.
[duplicate]
In order for things to improve, we must not be complacent: apathy is death.
I’m tired of promoting and supporting organizations that want me dead and gone. In order to bring about positive change, we must reward good behavior and not bad behavior. If we do not, we will find ourselves in a corner that will be evermore difficult to escape. In the worst case, OM will not be able to continue as OM, but something perverted: a ghost of itself.
I’m gonna need more time to come back and reply properly. But I’d imagine linux or something like it would exist even we did not have governments as the computer revolution happened in alternate history of statelessness. But I’ll have to take time to think about your answer more later. As yes taxation is extortion and taken by force and grants are given. Its a mess I agree.
I could also ponder multiple different scenarios given the benefit of time and a multitude of intellectual theories, but they would be just that. None of it addresses the fact that people only want to consume things that previous devs slaved away to create with no gratitude or compensation. Instead, the common media addicted user shows disdain for it.
I think picking your battles is also important. As much as open source organizations have funding issues I also don’t think they would disappear without these grants I think interested parties and some users start to pick up some of that slack (unless of course a 2nd great depression level crash happens as monetary fiat systems fall into hyperinflation and collapse and event like that would make all kinds of things collapse). So I don’t think KDE ev would stop functioning without grants anyway. It would a be huge issue for them but it would likely be worked out assuming the global economy isn’t in active collapse at that time. Also yes the software is good and maybe it should consider how its funded and think of better ways. But this does not mean you should be so concerned about it. (as for the mentioned economy crash the big one not just a little one with 2008 sure it will happen someday but that’s not what this topic is about)
I personally feel like the compensation part is key. Devs need to get paid. Nothing motivates a man more than providing for a family. You want devs motivated to do a good job, you pay them well based on merit.
This is true in all aspects of life.
The problem is there isn’t a current profit goal to fund the development independently. It’s based on a social program, thus everyone involved is a slave to that. Foundations based in the US have no legal obligation to provide more than 3% of their revenue to the project or cause they are raising money for. When the grant money dries up, they will just do what Mozilla did. Hook into a tech oligarch brand that farms data so they can beg them for money. You can bet GNOME is already trying to figure that out with the massive amount of debt they are incurring just in operating costs versus what they are receiving. Which is why they are so outwardly woke.
There is picking your battles, and intentionally avoiding the issue because you do not want to explore other options. Perhaps you are unaware of them, or do not want the discomfort. I don’t think anyone would judge you if that is how you feel, but the honesty part is probably important. Speaking around it just doesn’t provide the solid foundation for your thesis statement that you think it does.
I’m over Kde/gnome’s politics. Anyone running cinnamon successfully? Is it as polished as LM?
Honestly, I’m starting to think OM with Suckless tools is the only way to go. I work from the terminal or flatpaks anyways. What’s the status of daily driving a tiling wm on OM?
thanks!
Much as it might feel good to dump everything that’s politically nuts, that doesn’t leave a lot of options. Further, why should I increase my personal annoyance factors, and have to make do with a lesser product, because some of their management are idiots?
KDE makes linux usable for me. None of the other DEs are sufficiently complete in the ways I require. or they have too many regular annoyances. (Remembering that one person’s True Love is another’s Dude WTF.) I do not see that I should add annoyance to my life because some twit at KDE is a flaming idiot.
So, while I may wear a bag over my head at KDE’s embarrassing behavior, and certainly will not contribute any funding until they get their act back together, I’m not changing my perfectly valid user-habits in response to their infection with the woke mind virus. [1]
Further, I will take an unholy joy in their impotent fury when they see “nazis” using “their” software.
[1] At least not unless they start actively breaking things, like seems to be happening over at Ubuntu, tho I am coming to believe that is less wokism and Rust evangelism than Canonical grabbing a market opportunity in the lucrative sphere of big-server support as that expands with the AI craze. (Remember that with software, “customer” means enterprise business. Home users are not customers, they are a support cost, and it’s preferable to shed them if one is able.)