It's been a while, now is the time

Coffee break
41

I think it is a hinderance and allow me to tell you why I think this. I have both dialectic as well as rhetorical arguments about this.

I have 3 Gen Z and 1 gen Alpha Employee.

I literally had them read the Free Software Manifesto by Richard Stallman. (The GNU Manifesto - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation) You know, that one.

Their response was to laugh, say it was “gay” and “cringe”. It was a total joke to them.

How are we to get young people on board with fake and gay garbage like this? It’s not even real philosophy and software is not supposed to be philosophical anyway.

Without young people, your “movement” has no future.

You can keep on saying this faggy stuff if you want, I can’t stop you, but it is certainly a hinderance to growth of the platform.

42

I’m gonna go a step further and actually advocate for free as in free beer:

I have watched my buying power be eroded by 30%+ over the last 5 years or so. sure, I’ve increased my prices, but my revenue still trails inflation, and as a result I am poorer now than I was 5 years ago. The same can be said for the vast majority of my countrymen. That wealth didn’t just disappear, it went into the hands of the unholy and incestuous alliance between the bankers and the state, with some of the loot going to Big Corpo. They have been deliberately, and with malice aforethought, lowering the value of human labour since before I was even born. The generation before mine, one man earning the mode income could easily buy a home, a car, and support a wife and three kids. Look at the world now.

If one is using fiat cash, then one is being stolen from, period, and I don’t like being stolen from, and will do what I can to avoid it…so the high seas it is.
Yes, I would download a car if it was possible.

3 Likes
43

Okay @vannax I agree with that sentiment in the first paragraph 100%.

I suspect the only disagreement we would on this topic is who is responsible and how to fix it. That is not a conversation I will be having here.

It is different for me, My business is used goods, which has never been better than it is now. I already spend around $500 a month in software to run this thing.

If it is free software, I still pay because why should some dude work for my benefit without being compensated? The unspoken rule is that you should pay for what you use (at least that should be the rule).

If it is paid software, then it is something that serves the exact specific purpose I need it to.

Why should anyone work for free to provide software to me or anyone else? Morality matters a great deal. If it is not worth paying for, it is not worth using.

Either way, paying this money is not a loss to me, this software helps me generate wealth like I never imagined as a young man when I listed my first auction on eBay.

1 Like
44

I think it is a hinderance and allow me to tell you why I think this. I have both dialectic as well as rhetorical arguments about this. I have 3 Gen Z and 1 gen Alpha Employee. I literally had them read the Free Software Manifesto by Richard Stallman. (The GNU Manifesto - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation) You know, that one. Their response was to laugh, say it was “gay” and “cringe”. It was a total joke to them.

Hmm, who do we believe? Your anecdote of a supposed whopping sample size of 4 immature young people, with whom your total effort of “free software advocacy” was handing them a book and telling them to read a book one singular time? Because children just naturally adore & embrace reading/consuming manifestos without any mentorship assistance by default, right?

Or, do we look at the numbers and observe the actual data surrounding the exponentially increasing marketshare of a free software OS kernel platform whose real competition is two other proprietary ones?

Real tough one, I know.

How are we to get young people on board with fake and gay garbage like this?

By consistently talking and demonstrably showing how cool free software is, and highlighting how cringe proprietary software is. In part, you’re helping us as we speak.

You can keep on saying this faggy stuff if you want, I can’t stop you, but it is certainly a hinderance to growth of the platform.

Like I said, free software is inevitable. The trend is going up and has been for many years. If we wish to keep it, we must continue to do what we do now instead of listening to what you’re saying now. You could change your tune any moment if you wanted to.

If it is free software, I still pay because why should some dude work for my benefit without being compensated? The unspoken rule is that you should pay for what you use (at least that should be the rule).

I agree. We all are morally obligated in a way to pay. Fiat isn’t the only way to pay, advocacy is another, writing code is another, giving support to help tickets is another, that is in part why I contribute to free software projects that I use.

Either way, paying this money is not a loss to me, this software helps me generate wealth like I never imagined as a young man when I listed my first auction on eBay.

Which is why it is so queer that you disparage the very same legal/mental framework that allows it to exist and continue existing. It literally makes zero sense why you’re simping for proprietary software right now.

2 Likes
45

The problem is that you are not cool. None of you are, across any distro community in the whole Linux world. It is roughly the same type of people. No one wants to be like you, that’s the problem you face. Please understand I am just being honest and not intending to insult for no reason.

They are pretty far from immature, myself and their parents are pretty strict with them and they are much smarter than average. I know them very well and they are fully honest with me as their dads are like brothers to me.

Anyway, it does not matter, I myself am in charge of youth outreach for more than one organization. I know how to speak to young people and I know what they like and do not like. You don’t have to believe me, but I am correct about this. This stuff has nothing to offer the youth.

You can accept reality or not, it will be sorted out in the end either way.

No, the point is I’m not simping for anyone, proprietary or FOSS. I don’t care about that, I just care that Linux is great and OM specifically is great and I want it to not be destroyed by cringy midwits.

46

Bro, read the room. If we’re so “uncool”, then why are you even here? Time you will never get back is being spent in the domain of the very people you supposedly think are lame? Bro, I could not think of anything lamer of a person to do.

Anyway, it does not matter, I myself am in charge of youth outreach for more than one organization. I know how to speak to young people and I know what they like and do not like. You don’t have to believe me, but I am correct about this. This stuff has nothing to offer the youth.

You can accept reality or not, it will be sorted out in the end either way.

Sure buddy.

No, the point is I’m not simping for anyone, proprietary or FOSS. I don’t care about that, I just care that Linux is great and OM specifically is great and I want it to not be destroyed by cringy midwits.

The very thing you enjoy was created by said “cringy midwits”, big dog. It would behoove you to open your eyes.

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47

Yeah well, different circumstances, different behaviour. Living in Canada is like being in the fucking Matrix. The system itself wishes to enslave me with debt, and kill me when I am no longer productive. that system is my enemy.

I used to make good money working for a big telecom outfit, but the more money I made, the more they squeezed me, until I was eating at my desk and having dreams at night about being at work.

So screw them, and screw the entire system.

I now survive by providing services to my community, everything from small reno jobs to home maintenance to computer consulting to geek squad style installation services to knife sharpening, and I’m saving up to get a windshield repair kit to add that to my repertoire of earning opportunities…and anything else I can get my hands on. There exists in my area a small parallel economy, an economy that is of course totally forbidden by the PTBs.

From where I stand, I couldn’t care less if the whole corrupt mess just crashed and burned.

4 Likes
48

@wolfdaemon I don’t really care about any of what you just said. I’m here for the software. I would like to bring in some young people so the software can continue in the future. That’s pretty much it.

49

Well, you’re enjoying mostly FOSS software. Breathing all about how the ideology of free and open source software is cancer while using that the platform for that suites primarily that very same software that was built on top of said ideology is funny as hell and will never not be funny. It’s enough for me that enough people that actually care can carry you while wildly flailing your limbs about like someone said their name was “Hugh Mungus” in front of your iPhone camera. I will still occasionally poke you for that until the end of time. It gives me genuine immeasurable joy to know, despite how “lame” we supposedly are, you were and currently are attracted enough to keep coming to get served for seconds, thirds, and fourths.

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50

@vannax Yeah, I know what you mean. it is actually pretty rough here as well, though not as bad as Canada yet.

My situation is not the norm here. I am here partly by reading the room on the way the economy was heading and partly by luck of being surrounded by plentiful and cheap inventory.

I get full office buildings of “e-waste” from companies doing upgrades or downsizing. All I have to do is rent a truck and hire the crew to get it out of the building and it is mine free and clear as “salvage”.

51

@wolfdaemon I am fine with taking the fruits and kicking the gay ideology to the curb. It served it’s purpose, now it’s time to move on to the practical side of free software. Cringe free at last!

If FOSS is better then I support FOSS, if something else is better, I support that. I don’t support FOSS for the sake of FOSS or anything else for it’s own sake.

Linux is only great because Linus Torvalds is a genius and the guys who made UNIX before him were as well. When he dies, Linux is going to dive in quality and we will have to move to BSD at that point because it is almost there and actually promises to be even better than Linux eventually.

52

Oh sweet, so you’ll move to another FOSS kernel? Man, FOSS just can’t stop winning.

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53

@wolfdaemon When it comes to operating systems, yes FOSS does a good job. The best job actually. I always call them out for doing a good job when they do it. Is that not a reasonable position?

Should I just praise a FOSS program automatically, even if it sucks or there is something that works better for my use?

I’m not sure automatic praise despite the outcome is a good way to operate.

54

Should I just praise a FOSS program automatically, even if it sucks or there is something that works better for my use?

I’m not sure automatic praise despite the outcome is a good way to operate

That’s not what I’m saying. Of course it is good when a piece of software that is legally licensed in a way that respects their users is also the most convenient option available. That is worthy of praise, yes.

55

Well, that is where we disagree. I am neutral on licensing. I don’t care. I just want good software or software that does the exact specific thing I need it to do.

I’m not sure why that bothers you so much, but I will never care about this issue. I have real problems to worry about. I have the software I need to do my job, that is all that matters to me about the issue of FOSS vs whatever else.

56

Well, that is where we disagree. I am neutral on licensing. I don’t care. I just want good software or software that does the exact specific thing I need it to do.

The problem is that programs that are secret-source (proprietary) tend to not do so, especially over long periods of time. There’s no way to ever truly know, and that is where immoral practices tend to stem. For example, Amazon silently taking away the option of not sending voice recordings retroactively impossible to opt out in their “Echo” devices to be looked at and processed on other people’s computers is the type of thing that, in practice, only happens when the tech is proprietary. That is the insidious side of software that doesn’t respect your user freedoms. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and proprietary software is code lurking in the shadows.

I’m not sure why that bothers you so much, but I will never care about this issue. I have real problems to worry about. I have the software I need to do my job, that is all that matters to me about the issue of FOSS vs whatever else.

I care because proprietary software is inherently bad. It allows organizations/developers to control and take advantage of users in ways that FOSS software does not. Proprietary software is unethical, demonstrably so, time-and-time again. I’ve already cited real world examples that have negatively impacted people’s lives in meaningful ways. I care because I have a sense of justice and the common good, and wish to contribute to right those wrongs, to do good for the world, to drive humanity forward. Non-FOSS software does the opposite, and apathy is the ultimate killer of good.

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57

Well, when FOSS can meet all my needs completely and better than what I’m using now, with the same level of support I’m getting now, I will switch to FOSS and sing their praises from the heavens.

Until then, I’m not sure what you want. I can’t leave important software that automates my entire business just because SixBit Software Inc has a different business model that what wolfdaemon would prefer.

That would be retarded and very expensive for me.

58

I sincerely appreciate you.

Until then, I’m not sure what you want. I can’t leave important software that automates my entire business just because SixBit Software Inc has a different business model that what [you specifically] would prefer.

I’m not saying/expecting that you have go 100% copyleft or else you’re the devil. All I am saying is that there is a reason for freedom software as an ideology to exist. I am pointing out that this is the mental framework as to why people bother to create free software for you to use. I am providing the reasoning as to the why that is. It’s important to know why things are good, so that we can continue to do good.

I personally am thankful that people before me understood and valued that before I discovered that. I stand on the shoulders of benevolent giants, and I try to simply carry it forward the best I can. I appreciate what you said, and for taking the time to engage with me on the subject, and for being here at OpenMandriva, contributing what you can. I am not here to judge you, just guide and engage with you as a fellow member of the OM community. You are welcome here.

59

@wolfdaemon The things you call good are just neutral to me. I legitimately don’t care about it and I don’t even think it qualifies as an ideology at all.

That is really the core of it. You should find a real ideology to fill that hole inside you. DM me if you would like some ideas about that. Other than that, I’m not sure there is much more I can add for you here.

60

You do recognize that it’s possible for someone to hold more than one ideology or focus on more than one interest, right? Like, you can stand for software freedom and also advocate for other moral principles. There’s more to life than simply just one interest.